A Christian Living Out His Faith

Some people get so wrapped up in the phrase “separation of church and state” that they think it means Christians have to leave their faith at home if they are elected to public office. This is especially true of those who mistakenly think the phrase is in the Constitution instead of in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to Baptists in Danbury, Connecticut.

Others think all politicians get caught up in going along to get along so they can’t ever exhibit moral integrity. It’s instructive then to see that Paul Ryan, the newly introduced running mate for Mitt Romney, spoke at Georgetown University (a Catholic school) about how his Catholic faith informs his policy formation.

It’s worth reading the whole speech at this site. When I read it, I saw a great summary of this very complicated topic. These four subjects in that speech are worth exploring to see how faith can be implemented: (the quotes are from Paul Ryan’s speech)

Social Doctrine—“The work I do as a Catholic holding office conforms to the social doctrine as best I can make of it. What I have to say about the social doctrine of the Church is from the viewpoint of a Catholic in politics applying my understanding to the problems of the day.”

Solidarity—“Serious problems like those we face today require charitable conversation. Civil pubic dialogue goes to the heart of solidarity, the virtue that does not divide society into classes and groups but builds up the common good of all.”

Subsidiarity—This is the concept that those entities closest to the problem know it best and are best able to address it. So, families, friends, neighbors, cities, counties, and states should take care of issues first before relying on the national government to get involved. “Government is one word for things we do together. But it is not the only word. We are a nation that prides itself on looking out for one another—and government has an important role to play in that. But relying on distant government bureaucracies to lead this effort just hasn’t worked.”

Preferential option for the poor—It is a moral choice to prioritize resources so that the poor can have a necessary safety net. However, “…I do not believe that the preferential option for the poor means a preferential option for big government.”

Ryan goes on to talk about poverty, taxes, Medicare, and affordable health care. These are all subjects that demand civil dialogue and respect for differing opinions. That civil dialogue will lead to solidarity in working to effect true social justice.

I’m with Ryan. I believe it is not only possible, but the most moral choice for Christians to put their faith into practice in the public square.

The "Chick-Fil-A Controversy"

I just posted this on Facebook, and wanted to share it here also:

It should be axiomatic that you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet. And, one shouldn't pass along on FB or elsewhere that which is controversial unless they have researched the matter to make sure it is true.

I've read so many things here about the "Chick-Fil-A controversy". Almost none of them refer to the original article about the interview in which its President, Dan Cathy, affirmed his support for traditional marriage.

He never said anything negative. The phrase "gay-marriage" was not spoken. If those who criticize him and support a boycott of his company don't want to look like fools in the future, they may want to read the actual comments in this, the original article: http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=38271

They could also read this article by Terry Mattingly: http://www.getreligion.org/​2012/07/​wheres-the-beef-what-the-chick-​fil-a-boss-really-said/

Mattingly critiques the shoddy journalism of CNN and others who jumped to conclusions and, perhaps intentionally, distorted Mr. Cathy's remarks.

"It would have been so easy for the mainstream press to have reported Cathy’s remarks accurately and, then, to have accurately reported the comments of those who were more than happy to criticize the Chick-fil-A leader’s conservative views on marriage.

That equation is par for the journalistic course. But is it fair game to actually state, as fact, that the man said things that he didn’t say?"

I support traditional marriage. That doesn't mean I hate anyone. It does mean I believe God's ideal, and the purpose for which He created us and put man and woman together as "husband and wife" in the first place, should still be the ideal for the family today.

Comments on "Bad Religion", part 2

The prologue of "Bad Religion, How We Became A Nation Of Heretics" introduces the topic of "A nation of heretics". Not only have we seen a growing political and economic mess in America, it has become apparent that our culture has declined. Ross Douthat doesn't take sides politically. He clearly and comprehensively uncovers various religious theories about what has brought on the decline; and why religious institutions have lost so much influence over the culture.

Whether it is a voice from the right that says America started as a Christian nation and, having moved away from its Christian principles, has lost God's favor, or a voice from the left that says America is in decline because it is too religious, both are inadequate explanations. Douthat says "America's problem isn't too much religion, or to little of it. It's bad religion: the slow-motion collapse of traditional Christianity and the rise of a variety of destructive pseudo-Christianities in its place."

These distortions of traditional Christianity don't have the full stream to draw from--only self-indulgent truncated copies that in the end don't have the power of the real thing. Interestingly, Douthat says that the various "experiments" or "heresies" in American Christianity's history have not been all that bad. They have been good for traditional Christianity because the push and pull of innovation versus orthodoxy have served to strengthen the orthodox stream and make the faith broader and able to serve more people.

Freedom of religion in America has in the past made the orthodox stream stronger. "In America, because orthodoxy couldn't be taken for granted, orthodoxy came alive."

The problem today, though, is that the stream itself is weaker. The so-called "mainstream denominations" have declined in membership and influence. Many, having moved themselves out of the stream of orthodoxy, are now simply ignored as irrelevant by the cultural elites who set the memes of the news cycle.

Meanwhile, although the explosion of the tributaries shows that Americans are not less religious, the don't have the unity or collective power to affect the culture in a positive direction. Instead, we're a collection of individuals who each has his or her own "choose your own Jesus" that meets the requirement of providing some personal benefits without a sense of corporate responsibility.

Douthat wrote his book with the hope that things can be turned around. "Both doubters and believers stand to lose if religion in the age of heresy turns out to be complicit in our fragmented communities, our collapsing families, our political polarizations, and our weakened social ties." He will argue for a renewal of faith in and a return to the 2,000 year old stream. And, in spite of the pessimism of much of the book, he has hope that renewal can come.

I will write my comments with that same hope. Perhaps some readers will pick up the book themselves and read along. Perhaps others will simply rethink their own relationship to the religion that forms the roots of our culture and seek some answers in those churches where the gospel message is still being taught and lived.  After all, even heretics are not beyond the reach of God's grace.

Comments On "Bad Religion", part 1

I've started reading "Bad Religion, How We Became A Nation Of Heretics", by Ross Douthat.  It is so intriguing that I've decided to write a post on each chapter to share it with my friends.

Douthat traces the decline in influence of religion on American culture since the optimistic years following WW II. He sees the problem not as too little religion nor too much religion, but as what he calls "bad religion".

From the preface comes this illustration. "A chart of the American religious past would look like  a vast delta with tributaries, streams, and channels winding in and out, diverging and reconverging--but all of them fed, ultimately, by a central stream, an original current, a place where all the waters start. This river is Christian orthodoxy."

There has always been a struggle between the stewards of orthodox Christian belief and practice and those who seek to adapt to new circumstances by experimenting with, adding to, or deleting from that orthodoxy. America, with its lack of central authority, its melting pot of cultures, and its enshrined freedom of religion has been a fertile ground for these experiments.

These "experimenters" typically have taken one aspect of the multi-faceted (and sometimes seemingly contradictory) Christian stream and emphasized it, resulting in a tributary that at first is connected, but eventually departs dramatically from its origin. The result has been a collection of "choose your own Jesus" movements. So, we have become "a nation of heretics"--still religious, but with declining influence in the American culture.

Journey Into The Unknown, part 15—Journey’s End

Since December 4, 2011 we have been on our Journey Into The Unknown. This week as I was talking with an old friend and mentor, he said “It sounds like your journey has led you to a new home.” Indeed.

Today we joined Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church, our new church home.

In the “Connect Luncheon” after the late service, I was talking with those at our table and shared a remarkable fact: I had expected that our journey would take us to several different churches from which we could eventually select the one that was most compatible; but CCPC was the only church we even visited.

We went there first because a friend whom I had known since college days in Boulder convinced me that I ought to try his church. Both of us came from Baptist backgrounds. We reconnected at University Hills Baptist Church almost 30 years after we last saw each other. When he left that church, he went to CCPC. I had left previously and joined Calvary Baptist Church in Denver.

Just as the Lord was leading us to leave Calvary Baptist on our journey, I had lunch with my friend Tom. One of the primary things the Lord used to lead us to CCPC was Tom’s enthusiasm for his church. Tom was excited, even evangelistic about inviting me to his church. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen that in any church where I’ve been a member.

We discovered why Tom was excited about CCPC. The music, warm atmosphere, and the excitement the members seemed to have about Jesus kept bringing us back. The fact that several people we already knew from our Baptist past were members there made it easier to consider making the move.

Our enjoyable hour and a half visit with the Pastor, the 5-week class for new members, and the multiple signs of a conservative, evangelical theology were some of the other factors the Lord wove together to let us know the journey was over. We had indeed found our new home.

So, this is the last post of this series. Our Journey into the Unknown is over. Our destination is known—at least for this part of the journey. No Christian journey of faith is over until we cross that final river into our ultimate destination. That’s when faith will become sight and we shall see Him face to face. Our life of faith continues—in our new church home.

Thank you Lord for your leadership and your presence along the journey to this point. We’re excited about what lies ahead. You know it, of course; and by now we know that you will let us know when the time is right. Lead on!

My Journey Into The Unknown, part 14

I mentioned that in order to join Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church we had to answer 5 questions in the affirmative. Those 5 questions are:

1. Do you acknowledge yourself to be a sinner in the sight of God and without hope for your salvation except in His sovereign mercy?
2. Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the savior of sinners, and do you receive and depend upon Him alone for your salvation as He is offered in the Gospel?
3. Do you now promise and resolve, in humble reliance upon the grace of the Holy Spirit, that you will endeavor to live as becomes the followers of Christ?
4. Do you promise to serve Christ in His Church by supporting and participating with this congregation in its service of God and its ministry to others to the best of your ability?
5. Do you submit yourself to the government and discipline of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and to the spiritual oversight of this Church Session, and do you promise to promote the unity, purity and peace of this church?

The first three of these questions are a different way of presenting the gospel we read in the “Steps to Peace With God” booklet, as a part of the class. There are many ways to help someone know how to become a Christian, and many ways for the gospel to be presented. This booklet is only one. We are very pleased to be part of a church that takes special care to ensure that every member has at one time heard the gospel and responded to it.

Perhaps that’s one of the reasons the members seem more willing (and even eager) to share their love for Jesus with others. Note that the five questions didn’t ask whether we agree 100% with every doctrine the church promotes. Like any church, members fit within a range of acceptance of doctrinal beliefs. The main thing is not absolute conformity but one’s relationship with Jesus Christ.

The church’s emphasis on “The Essentials” (mentioned earlier) and its latitude concerning “non-essentials” is fine with me. I can agree with their Essentials and I can answer the five questions affirmatively. Beyond that, I’m willing to dialogue.

My Journey into the Unknown, part 13

It appears that the Lord has His reasons for leading us to our new church. I still don’t know what all those may entail, but I’ve found one—and it is more than sufficient: the Lord is drawing me closer to Himself by placing me in surroundings that nourish and refresh my soul.

One example of this is the way members talk about their love of Jesus and are thankful for His grace. In relative terms, it’s as if I’ve been led through the wilderness and now am made to lie down in green pastures and led beside the still waters. I’m encouraged to wait on the Lord and let Him restore my soul.

It’s probably just a “coincidence”, but Sunday as we went to get a cup of coffee before our last new member’s class, I picked up a book on an end rack of the church’s library shelves that spoke directly to me. It is “The Prodigal God”, by Timothy Keller.

It’s a short (133 pages) treatise on what we generally call the parable of “the Prodigal Son” from Luke 15. In the chapter on “Redefining Lostness” the Lord spoke to me in Keller’s descriptions of the two brothers, showing me how I need to focus on the Father’s lavish and extravagant grace instead of myself. I may write more about that later.

In all, it is encouraging to hear men and women sharing their own stories of how Jesus has lavished His grace on them. And, as part of becoming a member, we each had to personally share our testimony of accepting Jesus as Savior in a one-on-one session with an Elder.  New members can come to CCPC from any denomination and with whatever past experience of baptism they have had, but they aren’t automatically members just by asking to be one. They must have made a personal commitment to Jesus as Savior and Lord, and share that story with someone in authority in the church. I like that.

We made the commitment to join Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church last Sunday; and this coming Sunday we will be presented to the church as new members. In order to join, we had to both share our testimony and answer five questions in the affirmative. More about this in the next post.

Journey Into The Unknown, part 12

How is it that I came to the position that I might join a church that has a different view of baptism than what I have held all my life? There are two answers. First, I agree with the EPC concerning their distinction between essential and non-essential doctrines. Baptism is not essential for salvation, so even if we hold different perspectives, we can still worship and work together. Second, I’ve been studying and dealing with the issue of baptism for quite a long time.

I grew up and matured in Baptist churches and held a fairly strict Baptist view of baptism—that it should be “believer’s baptism” and that biblically it should be administered by immersion. 

In the Navy, in college, and later as an adult I came to know other strong believers from various denominations who had experienced different modes of baptism either as an infant or an adult. They were Christians just as I was. In some ways, I had the experience Peter had in Joppa (see Acts 10) where the Lord had to show him that others from different backgrounds were also part of the Kingdom.

I pastored a church, baptizing new believers (by immersion) and dedicating the new babies of my church members (asking the parents and the church to help bring up the child in the knowledge of the Lord).

I witnessed babies being “baptized” in a Methodist church, and being “dedicated” in an American Baptist church in almost the same exact manner, but without the water.

To explain the membership requirements for our former church, I wrote a brief article about baptism and the church’s previously adopted policy that it would only practice believer’s baptism by immersion but would accept as valid a new member’s prior baptism from any other Christian denomination. It was similar to the position I had reached a few years earlier in a piece I called “Baptism From A Pastoral Perspective”. [for more on this subject I encourage you to see G.R. Beasley-Murray's book, "Baptism In The New Testament".]

Both of those pieces were written from the standpoint of welcoming a Christian from a different background into a Baptist church where I, as a pastor or leader had some responsibility for helping others see baptism from a Baptist perspective.

Now I am faced with the opposite situation—I am considering membership in a church where I would be the Christian coming from another denomination into a church where “believer’s baptism” by immersion is available but is not the norm. Now “the shoe is on the other foot”, and I am the one who is asked to accept their policy. Importantly, even if that policy involves a "non-essential", that does not make it insignificant to those who believe that entry into the covenantal fellowship via infant baptism is desirable.

Interestingly, in the "Creek Explored" class for potential new members today, the leader asked us to review the pamphlet "The Essentials" for next week. Then she said that most of the problems people have who decide not to become a member are among the "non-essentials", not the "essentials". I'm thinking that baptism is one of those stumbling blocks for many. Indeed, that's why I have done so much thinking, praying, and writing on the issue. Is it something about which I can say affirmatively, "I can live with that difference."

 I am only considering membership though. I’m not thinking of becoming a pastor who would be expected to administer infant baptisms myself. As a member, I can understand their policy on baptism, and since it is a “non-essential” (in their policy and in mine as well), I am at liberty to agree or disagree with it with charity.  I may disagree, but I can say, "I can live with that. It's not something I would do, but I'm not going to make a big deal of it."

If I were a pastor though, my personal beliefs about baptism would be involved, and I wouldn't be able to just say that I disagree. I would be making a non-essential into an essential for me. And that decision would affect others who would also be faithful members of the church. Thankfully, I don’t have to consider that question right now.

Thanks be to God that Jesus in Matthew 28:19,20 said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Jesus has the authority. He gave the commands. He will be with us to the end. He said baptism is to be “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. I will leave it to Jesus and the local churches He has established to determine what the policies should be about how and when that baptism is to be administered.

My decision is whether I can agree with a church’s policy. If the matter is significant enough and I can’t agree, then I shouldn’t be a member of that church. I've been through that before on a different policy.

If there are some disagreements, but they are not significant (or “essential” in the case of Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church as an EPC member), then I could be a member as I have been in every church in the past—in agreement on almost everything but still having the right to disagree on non-essential matters.

Happily in this situation, I am not coming without prior experience or study. My study (linked above) has prepared me to fit in well with the EPC’s position:

          In essentials…Unity

          In non-essentials…Liberty

          In All things…Charity

Journey Into The Unknown, part 11

In my last post I said that Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church (CCPC) satisfies the five criteria listed in part 6 for what we are searching for in a new church home. In almost every significant area there is very little difference between Baptists and Presbyterians.

The one major difference is with baptism. I’ll explain the Baptist position later as I outline my own journey (of another kind) regarding baptism.

Presbyterians, like a number of other denominations, baptize infants. This rite is seen as welcoming the child into the covenant relationship of the church. It is compared to circumcision as the covenantal rite of inclusion in the Old Testament.

Since this baptism is not seen as a means of salvation, the focus is on the faith and commitment of the parents and the church to raise the child in the knowledge of the Lord. Then later as the child grows, he or she will hopefully profess a personal faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

At CCPC I understand that sometimes by parental choice the infant is not “baptized” but the rite is instead referred to as a “dedication” and is performed without water. In these cases also, the focus is on the faith of the parents and their desire to raise the child in the church so eventually he or she will make an individual profession of faith in Christ. This “dedication” is no different from what is done in many Baptist churches.

This is where the churches affiliated with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) helpfully clarify matters for Christians coming from other denominations. The beliefs shared by churches in the EPC focus on what they call “The Essentials”. Built on the foundational belief that the Bible is the Word of God, the seven Essentials are those core Christian beliefs that the Church has taught for 2,000 years—the ones that are critical if one is to meet the traditional criteria for acceptance into the Christian Church.

Knowing that the various denominations within the worldwide Church differ on some matters, the EPC distinguishes the Essentials from “non-essentials”. One of those “non-essentials” is baptism—how it is administered (i.e. by immersion, pouring, or sprinkling) and when it is administered (in infancy or later when the believer makes a personal profession of faith). The point there is that since baptism is not necessary for salvation, good Christian people can differ about the particulars of baptism and still serve together as brothers and sisters in Christ.

I will outline my own personal journey of understanding about baptism in the next post. For now, I can join a church like CCPC that is definitely not a Baptist church with respect to its practice of baptism (although a youth or adult who accepts Christ will be baptized and may request baptism by immersion) and be confident that I am not sacrificing an “essential” doctrine.

Journey Into The Unknown, part 10

This journey has been “into the unknown” because when we felt it necessary to leave our former church home, we didn’t know where the Lord would lead us. Not being an active church member is not an option. So, we have sought the Lord’s leadership in finding a place where we could be at home and become involved.

Sunday’s experience was a confirmation that the place we’ve been considering is where we will join.

In part 6 of this Journey blog, I outlined the 5 things I was looking for in a church. This one meets all those criteria—it just doesn’t have the name Baptist attached to it.

The music was superb, and sitting close to the choir and singing the hymns in a sanctuary that has great acoustics for music literally gave me goose bumps. It is definitely the “The Language of Music” that speaks to me.

Through the sermon, the Lord spoke to me about what He expects of me. I took notes, and notice that someone in front of me was taking notes as well. I like exegetical sermons. They provide a superb opportunity to dig into the scripture and understand what God said to His people then and to us now.

Then, in the Sunday School hour, we attended the first of five in a series of their new member classes. Looking over the material that will be covered, I am excited to become a member of a church where both the church’s doctrines and its openness about salvation by grace through faith are openly taught.

If someone who doesn’t believe the core doctrines of Christianity and who has never had a time when they personally accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord goes through these classes, they will either have a conversion experience or they will decide this church is not for them.

One resource that is used in the class is “Steps To Peace With God” from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. The four steps outlined in this booklet are similar to “The 4 Spiritual Laws” that Campus Crusade for Christ uses. The first “law” or “step” is “God loves you and wants you to experience peace and life—abundant and eternal.”  That is a critical place to start sharing the Gospel, but it’s only one of four steps.

What frustrated me in another church was that they wanted to stop there—just tell people that God loves them—leaving out everything about the need for grace (because we are sinners) and God’s provision of grace (the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ), and the need to appropriate that grace (by personally accepting the gift God offers in Jesus).

Grace is free, but costly (just ask Bonhoeffer—oh sorry, you can’t ask him. He was martyred for his faith.)

To tell people that all that is needed is love and that to be a Christian is just to “follow Jesus” does people a disservice. They need to hear the truth of the gospel, including the parts where repentance, accepting Christ as Savior, and committing one’s life to Christ are required.

Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church meets the 5 requirements I posted in part 6 of this series. We’ll gladly worship and serve with them in the Lord’s Kingdom.

Journey Into The Unknown, part 9

The “Unknown” is becoming known—at least it appears that way unless the Lord intervenes and leads elsewhere.  The service at Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church (CCPC) this morning was a confirmation that we seem to be on the right path. You notice the tentative nature of that statement. This is, so far, not one of those instances in which the Lord plainly reveals His will for us. We'll start the church's series of new member classes on February 5th, and after that make the final decision.

Having had a very good conversation with the Senior Pastor, and getting our questions satisfactorily answered, the major impediment to our joining the church is that of denominational identity. I never imagined that I would be a member of anything but a Baptist church.  

Maybe I’ll end up something like what one of my former students said about herself.  She grew up a Methodist. She was marrying a Baptist, and she joined his church and was baptized according to the Baptist tradition. Afterwards she was firm in saying to me, “I just want you to know that I’m not a Baptist, I’m just a wet Methodist”.   I may become a member of a Presbyterian church, but will I ever be anything but a Baptist at heart? That part of the journey is yet to be revealed.

Still, I do appreciate what the Pastor said about the difference between their “essential” and “non-essential” doctrines. I heartily concur with all of their “essentials”. I can live with some difference of opinion on their “non-essentials”. In part 6 of this Journey, I mentioned five things I’m looking for in our next church home. One of them was “a place where everyone knows your name”, that is, a Christian family. And in part 8, I said this is a place where we already have some friends. That makes a big difference. 

It’s hard to make new “old friends”, so to go to a church where we already have some makes losing the weekly contact with the friends we made at our previous church a little easier. We still want to keep the bonds of friendship strong with our friends at our previous church; but we are also not naïve. We know we will have to be intentional about keeping them alive. Thankfully, some of those friends are also reaching out to us to keep our relationships strong.

In the end, though, all of the factors in post #6 will influence our decision on joining a church, not just friendships. If friendships were the only factor, we would not have started on this journey.

Interestingly, at least to me, as I look back at the factors listed in post #6, none of them were specific to a certain denomination. Much like many others I've come to know over the years, denominational labels are becoming less important to me. I've known genuine Christians from every Christian denomination over the years.

The core Christian doctrines are critical for me: what they call the "essentials" at CCPC. I've come to see that the place where some churches get off the track generally centers on what they teach about Jesus Christ.

If a church affirms the traditional doctrines about Jesus (as in the classic creeds of the church), other doctrines will usually fall in line. If a church denies certain core teachings about Jesus (such as His divinity or His bodily resurrection), other core doctrines fall apart as well.

Does that sound strange--that a "Christian" church will get off track concerning their teachings about Jesus? It sounded strange to me too when I experienced just that phenomenon. When talking about Jesus only as a teacher, a model for life, and as one we should "follow" and never talking about Him as "Savior" is the norm, one wonders what it is about that Jesus that one would worship.

It is clear from the Scriptures (see especially I Corinthians 15) that without a conviction that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead, one's faith is in vain. As both Lindsey and I have often said, "If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, we might as well just be a member of some club like Rotary that does good deeds but doesn't require much else of you. Or, why not just get a tee time on Sunday morning instead of wasting it in a meaningless church service.

But if Jesus' resurrection was real...well, that makes giving Him my life the most meaningful thing I can do. That is exactly what I have done. I've given my life to Jesus Christ, and He has become my Savior and my Lord. That is what has given my life purpose, whether as a sailor, a student, a pastor, a Campus Minister, or even as a Realtor.

So, one thing is sure--the church which we will join will have very clear, traditional, Christian teachings about the core doctrines, and especially those about Jesus Christ. More to come about this after we've taken the classes.

Journey Into The Unknown, part 8

One never knows where a journey might take him, especially when the Lord is setting the itinerary. I still don't know whether the place we visited today will be an overnight stay, a short vacation, or a longer stop on the road to that unknown country.

It's now been four weeks since we started on this journey. Last week Lindsey and I met with the pastor of the church we likely will join--that longer stop mentioned above. It appears to meet the criteria I listed in post #6.

One of the positives of this church is that we already have friends there, and they have enthusiastically encouraged us to come and join them. That's one of the clues that a business, an organization, or a church is doing something right--do its customers or members talk about it in such a way that others start to think it might be the right place for them?

Before accepting someone as a member, this church requires attendance at a new members' class, agreement with the church's essential doctrines (while giving some latitude on "non-essential" doctrines: those that are important but not essential for salvation), and giving one's personal testimony to one of the elders of the church. Once we've been through the class and have made a decision, I'll post the name of the church.